:X

Uhh Ohh........................................

i know you have kids, and as child a of divorced parents, i say do what is going to make you happy. we were better off after our are parents split, but i don't know what your situation is so......yeah.

relevant to my interests, wheres erik

dude.

Momos can't get divorced.

I approve of divorce. If it's not working, get the fuck out. You gotta worry about number one... yourself.
One simple way to avoid it is not get married in the first place.

Anyways- good luck, Kem. We're all hoping for the best for you.

marriage in it self isn't the issue, its the people in it that make it bad. i would not turn down a good marriage

Still? If this is still an issue, GTFO. Just don't be selfish.

Kemmer's a great dad. Don't get divorced and think that you can ignore your kids. You have to make an effort.
/emokid

kemmer doesn't strike me as someone that would just ditch his kids

no fucking way.

Tarck is about irreconcilable differences.

i sort-of feel like an expert. this may be the only thing that i'm particularly good at. after two successful divorces my self & being the product of a broken marriage, i feel like i can offer advice on the process, the emotional turmoil as both a spouse and a child, the aftermath... and most importantly: the dating scene. that being said, since kids are involved, make sure that the relationship is truly broken before you move forward with the divorce. the separation process may be easier on you since you already are used to traveling a lot and being away from your family for extended periods of time. keep in mind that children tend to think that it's their fault when their parents split up so, constantly remind them that it's not and that you love them. as for ending it with your wife, who seemed quite healthy and rational when we met, i think you'll be able to separate your lives while maintaining a decent relationship for the children's sake. if you find that it's tumultuous at times... i found that telling my most recent ex that i loved her and that i cared for her seemed to calm her down. you're both going to be hurting, and at least one of you has to remind the other that the split isn't happening because of lack of love, but rather, because you're not compatible for whatever reasons.

I hope that our few remaining friends
Give up on trying to save us
I hope we come up with a failsafe plot
To piss off the dumb few that forgave us
I hope the fences we mended
Fall down beneath their own weight
And I hope we hang on past the last exit
I hope it's already too late
And I hope the junkyard a few blocks from here
Someday burns down
And I hope the rising black smoke carries me far away
And I never come back to this town
Again in my life
I hope I lie
And tell everyone you were a good wife
And I hope you die
I hope we both die

I hope I cut myself shaving tomorrow
I hope it bleeds all day long
Our friends say it's darkest before the sun rises
We're pretty sure they're all wrong
I hope it stays dark forever
I hope the worst isn't over
And I hope you blink before I do
Yeah I hope I never get sober
And I hope when you think of me years down the line
You can't find one good thing to say
And I'd hope that if I found the strength to walk out
You'd stay the hell out of my way
I am drowning
There is no sign of land
You are coming down with me
Hand in unlovable hand
And I hope you die
I hope we both die

Oh man.

Hugs?

If theres a story I kinda want to hear it but kinda don't because sad.

Mountain Goats would be fitting right now.

Speaking as a 28 year old with parents who still threaten to get divorced from time to time, if you really feel like it's irreconcilable then get out. If you just keep arguing about it over and over, then you'll get totally scarred to it and eventually settle on living a totally unhappy life together, constantly saddening/annoying the people around you. While it's certainly important to try to make it work, it's equally important to know that it's time to let go when it becomes obvious that the two of you don't work well together.

I think eveything that's been said here is stuff I've heard 1,000 times before. I don't know if it's hope that the relationship could someday work better than it is now, or fear of the unknown that keeps me here. Probably a little of both.

Here's my situation, I was a little too muddled to articulate it last night.

My wife and I get along just fine most of the time, have fun together, we don't fight a whole lot, etc... She is a really great person, good mother, great friend and kind to all around her. I enjoy her company and I couldn't ask for a better spouse. Below the surface though, there are a lot of problems.

1. Ultimately were aren't very compatible. She likes routine and tradition while I crave adventure and have virtually no interest in doing things I have already done. Since she finds it very difficult to get out of her comfort zone, my adventures happen without her sometimes, and this really bothers her.

2. She doesn't trust me because we spend a lot of time apart (and not just while I'm working out of town, I spend time with my friends without her too) and because there have been times when I have given her reason to not trust me.

3. I'm pretty selfish, and I tend to not consider her when making certain choices. Most of the time it is unintentional, but sometimes I just do things that I know will bother her because in the moment I don't care. I'm not talking about infidelity here, more mundane day to day stuff.

4. The sex is not very good most of the time. Her preference of the more routine, and my sense of adventure extend into the bedroom too. Both of us find our sexual relationship largely unfulfilling.

5. She is mormon and I am not. I was raised in the church and I was what you might call a true believer untill 3 or 4 years into our marriage. I stayed in the church and didn't voice my concerns at all for another 3 years or so out of fear that it would cause my marriage to end if I left. I finally decided that come what may, I could no longer pretend to believe something I knew was a lie. She took this personally, believing that if my family was important to me I would not have made a decision that would threaten to destroy it. I don't really know how to respond to that, because from her point of view (where the church is true and it's the only way for families to be happy) it seems like a pretty selfish move on my part.

6. I'm sure there's a 6,7,8 and 9.

#5 seems like a pretty big one. How do your differing views impact the raising of your kids, and how do you picture that working if/when you separate?

When I first read this, #5 came to mind. And I feel that #1 & 4 kinda have something to do with 5. When you were in town for new years, you wife was super nice and approachable, but she seemed annoyed with the situation (party with bunch of people and alcohol/drunken behavior).

I don't think she was annoyed so much as she was uncomfortable. That is a good example of a situation she avoids due to it being unfamiliar. For example, if a friend is having a birthday party and alcohol and/or people she doesn't know will be there, she will stay home a large percentage of the time. This leads to more of #2, which ultimately has made #4 a bigger problem. All this shit is interconnected, naturally. I don't know where it all went wrong, or how to undo it now. It seems like maybe there's like a thread I could pull and unravel the whole sweater and things would be better, or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe the tread has been pulled and the sweater is now a pile of yarn that can't be woven back together. I can't figure out what the analogy should be here. I don't even know if I want a damn sweater.

No wait-

Tarck is about (just) being friends.

Is she raising the kids LDS?
DO NOT ALLOW IT!!!!

unfortunately, my gf is kinda like this. Not so much the alcohol part, but the people she doesn't know part. She now knows all my bike friends and loves them, but doesn't seem to want to give many other of my great friends a chance.

i get really shy in groups and tend to not want to go out when there are a lot of people i don't know. however, if nate invites his friends over or we go out with a small group i cannot be shut up. maybe just find what her comfort zone is and introduce her to people that way.

You guys really think it's that simple?

I know it's that simple. Speaking from experience here.

No but a goal to work towards.

I agree. Easier said than done if you're not the custodial parent though.

My approach has been to let her take them to church and to provide a different perspective that will allow them to think for themselves enough to either be a non-crazy member of the chruch (they do exist) or chose a different path for themselves once they are a little older. The Mormon faith was a huge part of my life as a teenager and young adult and who I am now is largely a product of that upbringing. I believe that having that be a part of my childrens lives will be positive, so long as I am able to be the voice of reason and keep the brainwashing to a minimum. This will be difficult in a shared custody situation.

Kemmer... this might sound cliche or whatever but I mean it to be sincere...

Have you thought about marriage counseling? Honestly... it seems as though you're both involved in a relationship in which you both want your way only. Imho, I can't imagine that happening in ANY relationship ever. That said, perhaps discussing with someone (though I must admit, going to marriage counseling is probably much more difficult to ACTUALLY do than it is to say) but realistically... I think this might be one of those situations where it would be totally worth it to talk with a 3rd party or mediator. It will enable you to both tune in to each others needs and desires and perhaps allow you to get a grip on the relationship.

Also as a product of divorce, I think its important that you and your wife give it everything you can before you get into divorce options. If it's not right, it's not right... but I think there are still options to exhaust before it gets to that. Once you bring up the "divorce" (aka nuclear option) no matter what... the relationship takes that negative stigma.

SOrry if some of that has been discussed before/ I'm out of the loop. Just tryin to help...

As a product of two divorces... actually I have nothing constructive to add that hasn't been said alread.

Having to deal with divorce as a child sucks, but is manageable as long as you see the noncustodial parent on a regular basis.

Having to deal with divorce as a teenager sucks and isn't even an issue after the first one, but it can bring a lot of resentment. I used to talk a lot of shit about my ex-stepdad without even knowing the entire story. At least now I know I was spot on.

this sounds like a great way to to it.

also +1 to counseling.

If mormons can't get divorced from other mormons can they get divorced from exmormons who were mormon when they got married?
Also, Kemmer, what's with the underwear?

SSShhh guys keep the mormon talk down I work with one we don't want him to hear.

Dudes cool though.

this thread makes me sad, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

unfortunately not everything can be solved with rational conversation and hugs.

as the product of being raised by women alone, i just have to say, if shit goes down...be a good dad no matter what.
give the children the option to rebel from the church, and teach them when to tell people to fuck off.

this. brainwashed kids from evangelist households are fucking terrifying.

Have you presented the above to her in a quiet setting away from the kids where you have some time to discuss the situation?

If not, I'd do that prior to even considering divorce.

FWIW, my wife and I saw a marriage counselor for a while. We found it helped facilitate our communication, and opened our eyes to the importance of creating time for just she and I to spend time together, away from everyone else. The net result was that every week we hire a babbysitter for a couple hours and go on "Date Night." Nothing fancy usually, just dinner, maybe a drink or two, and time to catch up with one another. Sometimes we see a movie. We're almost always home by 9:30 or 10.

Pretty boring routine, maybe, but it turns out Date Night is much cheaper than the marriage counselor, and WAY WAY WAY cheaper than divorce. Plus as it turns out, we actually really do get along well and enjoy each others' company. I've also found that, as much as I too enjoy adventures, I don't like leaving my wife high & dry to have to take care of the kids, the house, etc. solo. I had to do some re-prioritization to support her more. She has seen this change and been way more into supporting me when I want to go off and do an all-day ride, or go up to the Bay Area to visit friends solo, or whatever.

Overall result has been that our relationship is stronger now than ever before. Sex has gotten better, too (when it happens - as it turns out, small kids have many ways of being extremely effective birth control. LOL???)

This thread is interesting as I have seen and stayed with Kemmer and Mrs. Kemmer. I agree with and can see how most of the things that Kemmer said are very true.

Your kids are amazing though, kem.

We tried consoling, and it did help for a while but it never really fixed the fact that we are two very different people who want different things out of life.

I'm not super sure how things happen and whatnot in couples in religious sects (lack of living together or sleeping together etc..) but did you notice any of these things before?

the rain fell all night and it kept me awake
it was still falling by morning.
it was hard to take.
and you were sleeping on the floor,
breathing free and even,.
if i ever want to drive myself insane,
all i have to do is watch you breathing
and at 5 AM, i turned the radio on,
and an old mans voice sang a short sweet song,
and then the static roared again hungry for blood
i heard the rain falling from the rain spout
down down into the sweet wet mud,
and you punched out all the windows
and the wind began to wail
and you gathered your hair behind your head
like god was gonna catch you by the pony tail,
and then the old voice crackled through the static.
and i felt young and alive
and the hair stood up on the back of my neck
we were rising from the grave, yeah yeah.

We didn't date all that long, counting the engagement it was a year total. There weren't really any signs of trouble at the point, or maybe I wasn't paying enough attention coz young x horny.

get me into divorce, too, while you're at it. i know i need to get it all taken care of but i'm hesitant to jump in because i'm worried about getting fucked financially.

what ever happened to moving to the new country and waiting for your wife to die of dysentery ?

in your case just but the bullet. If I understand it correctly yours should be pretty simple No kids right? no major assets? But really I did not even know you were hitched